Amanda Benbow Lunn: 0:08

Hello friends. Thanks for tuning in to the NC Deep Dive Podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Benbow Lunn. This is being recorded and hopefully released on February 22nd, meaning there are only six more days of early voting left, with a primary election being on Tuesday, March 3rd. We are officially in the home stretch of this election season. Candidates are making the rounds, forums are wrapping up, doors are being knocked, phones and emails are blowing up, and flyers are routinely showing up in the mail. Candidates are trying to get their messages out, and quite frankly, there's no real good way to do that, as we as voters are typically pretty hard to reach, as we're living our own busy lives, sometimes stretched precariously thin, and just don't have the time and perhaps get frustrated with all the ways candidates do try to reach us. Every person is different in what ways are meaningful and helpful to us. And if you are listening to this, you are exactly why I put so much time and effort into creating these podcast episodes. I know how hard it can be to find information about all of the races and all of the candidates and how time consuming it can be. Some places only have certain parties' information, some only certain races. I also know with how busy I am, sometimes it is easier when one, someone has taken the time and done the work to compile everything together, and two, it is in an audio format so I can listen in the frequent in-between moments of my day. Moments I may not have enough time to do much else in. Or perhaps moments when I can multitask, like when I'm driving, folding laundry, or running. I want to make it as easy as possible for you to feel informed and confident in your choices, no matter who or what resonates with you personally. This year, when I sent out the NC Deep Dives 2026 Voters Guide questionnaires to all of the candidates and their teams, I also expressed my willingness to try to attend and record any candidate forums where all the candidates for a particular race had been invited, where the goals of the forum were meant to be fair between said candidates. I also understand that perhaps with time restrictions or comfort levels, I might not have the time or necessarily be welcomed in all spaces. So I proffered the opportunity for others to record and share an audio file with me if they did attend candidate forums, so that I could easily amplify the message, helping candidates reach potential voters, allowing voters the chance to be as informed as possible. The third of such occurrence happened recently with the Southern Springs Wake Dems, and I am excited to share the candidate forum here with you, as I do think hearing from candidates directly adds immense value to being as informed as possible. For me, witnessing their energy, their inflections, how they answer questions or perhaps don't answer questions, and how they participate has the opportunity to say more than their websites and their marketing materials ever will. It adds to my visceral knowledge to then contribute to the emotional, intellectual, and logical pieces for a more well-rounded assessment to help me with my due diligence. This candidate forum covers the race that will be on the Democratic ballot for the U.S. House of Representatives for District 13. It can also be called the Congressional District for 13. This district is one of our most gerrymandered districts, stretching from Caswell County on the Virginia border through several counties like Franklin, Granville, Harnett, Johnston, Lee, Person, and parts of Southeast Wake County. For most of us in southern Wake County, if you are pulling a Democratic ballot in the primary, you will likely have either the U.S. House District 4 race between Valerie Foushee, Nida Allam, and Mary Patterson, or you will have the U.S. House District 13 race between Paul Barringer, Frank Pierce, and Alexander Nicholi. If you are unsure which race might be on your ballot, you can always search the words voter search in a search engine, and the NC State Board of Elections site will show up where you can enter in your information, click on your entry if there are multiple people with your same name, and scroll down to the section jurisdiction. Where it says Congress will have your congressional or US House district number next to it. You can also scroll down a little further to where it says sample ballot, and you'll click the link provided there and it will show you your exact ballot and all the races and candidates that you will be eligible to vote for. Just as a reminder that in a primary, you can only vote in your registered party's races. For example, if you are registered as a Democrat, you will only be eligible to vote the Democratic ballot. Same as a Republican, you'll only be eligible to vote in the Republican ballot. No other recognized party in North Carolina has a primary this year. If you happen to be registered as unaffiliated, also known sometimes as independent, you will have the choice of either the Democratic ballot or the Republican ballot. And please keep in mind all the candidates on a Democratic ballot are Democrats. All those on a Republican ballot are Republicans. So you will want to know exactly which candidates you want to vote for if your typical strategy may be to vote for someone who has either an R or a D after their name. Alright, back to this forum. It is moderated by Walter Kreutz, the co-area coordinator for the Southern Springs Dems. The questions were populated by those in attendance and other Democrats, and the candidates speak in alphabetical order. Alexander Nicholi did not end up attending after originally committing to this event. Paul Barringer answers each question first, followed by Frank Pierce. Again, this is for the U.S. House of Representatives for District 13 that will be on the Democratic ballot. Those running as candidates in this race are Paul Barringer, Frank Pierce, and Alexander Nicholi. Without further ado, my friends, let's dive in.

Walter Kreutz: 6:01

We're supposed to have all three candidates here tonight, but I only see two. So he did say he was going to be here, but I'm going to kind of just assume it. We're going to go in the same order of alphabetical order. Any questions that anyone still has? All right. We gave Alexander Nicholi as much time as we could. So we only have two of the three candidates here tonight. I'm going to start with just a three-minute allowing the candidates to intro themselves.

Paul Barringer: 6:24

Well, hello, everyone. I'm Paul Barringer. I'm running to represent you all in District 13, which covers this area and a number of other counties. I want to tell you quickly why I'm running, a little bit about me, what I stand for, and why I think I can win. Why I'm running is because I could not take the news one more day. I have a feeling some of you all might feel the same way. That's why you're here. I felt like we needed to do something everywhere. Michigan and Ohio can take care of themselves. Let's bring it home to Johnston County and Southern Wake County, from Lee County, and Harnett County. So that's why I'm here. I'm running because I could not take the news one more day. Who am I? I'm a lawyer, tree farmer from Lee County. I live on a farm where I grew up. My family's been in Lee County for a long time. Yes, I was gone. I'll tell you that right now. I lived in Washington, D.C. I lived in England. I lived in New Zealand for a year. That goes back a long time ago. But my heart was always in Lee County. And I came back last year. My mom was ailing. She was 96 to try to help take care of her. And she died in the summer. But one of the last things she said to me before she died was, How's your campaign going? So I know she was interested and she wanted to see where this would go. I wish she could be here because she would have had a lot of fun. I was at a Cooper event the other night where everyone at Sanford had turned out and she would have had so much fun there. And people were asking about her and so many people in New York, all that aside. All right, I'm running because I couldn't take the news one more day. I'm from Lee County, lawyer, tree farmer, eagle scout, Sunday school teacher, endurance athlete. I've run a lot of long distances. I biked the district back in the fall, which is 182 miles from my house to Yancyville, even though directly it's only 66 miles, evidence of how gerrymandered this district is. I will say I raise that because all the endurance things I've ever done, I never quit. And I won't quit in this until we turn this district blue. And now, what do I stand for? I think Congress has an obligation under the Constitution to be an independent, co-equal third branch of government that shows an exercise of accountability and oversight of the other two branches of government that and not happening right now. I believe that Congress has a role to play in addressing issues of concern for regular folks. That means affordable health care, fixing and funding to VA, immigration reform, fixing the damage that Elon Musk did, and so on. We need to focus on those things. If I can get elected, constituent service will be my top focus. Healthcare, second, third, that executive accountability function. Yes, I lived a long way away for years. I also used to be a Republican. I was a Republican who believed in, as Heather Cox Richardson put it, the government has a role to play in providing a social safety net, making public investments, protecting civil rights, and regulating business. I believe that as a Republican. I believe that definitely as a Democrat. We got to flip this district. I've raised money to allow us to do that, built out our team, and I would love to have your support. So thank you so much for the opportunity to be here.

Frank Pierce: 9:05

So my name is Frank Pierce, and I was your nominee in 2024. So to let you know some backstory with that, like the person who had the seat ran away at the last hour, stepped up and ran. So in doing so, also, we broke every state record for active voter turnout ever. No U.S. House person, not Deborah Ross, not Valerie Foushee, has ever turned out more than 80% of active voters. We turned out 86.7% of active Democratic voters. To top it off, we also took the second most Republican votes in this district, only behind Josh Stein, who was running against the black Nazi. No other state house race took as many Republican votes in this district as we do. So this race matters. It does, but it matters for one reason. It's someone who's going to help Democrats get elected up and down the ballot to turn people out. To help Roy Cooper win the Senate race, to help Anita Earls win her justice race. Things that people don't remember, Roy Cooper's never run an off-year election. So it is a huge drop. He has never run an off-year election. The only candidate that is running is Anita Earls that has, that's running for a big seat. I have three house seats in my district, one that has win in it, and then two up north, one in Creedmore slash Nance, and one in Northern Wake. All three, we have a shot at winning. But it's about someone who's going to turn out voters and get them to show up to election day. Someone who has been knocking on the doors who's been showing up. Last time we knocked over 20,000 doors by myself. My team knocked over 60,000. This time I was planning on doing 25,000 until I need to Earl's diagnosis. Now my goal is 30,000. I've already knocked 3,700 doors. I continue to knock every day. I run my business until I finish for the day, and then I go knock doors. I was knocking doors before I came here. The whole purpose is to turn Democrats out, to turn independents out, to turn Republicans who haven't voted out. This is an off-year election. Whoever turns out the most votes will make sure that you went up and down the ballot, and that's it. And that's the difference between me and everyone else in this primary is I've shown up, I know who's going to show up, and I know how to get people to show up and vote in November. I did it last time. We were projected to get 33% of the vote last time. We got 43% of the vote. We outperformed every single house race in the state for turnout. Those are the numbers that you need in November, and those are the numbers that matter. I am Frank Pierce. I look forward to your vote. And thank you everybody for coming tonight.

Walter Kreutz: 11:08

So the first question actually comes from the area coordinators because this is a question that's becoming important for us. If elected, what will you do for the Democratic Party? And if you are elected, why will I vote for you the next time?

Paul Barringer: 11:21

If elected, what will I do for the Democratic Party and why would you vote for me again the next time? If elected, I will do everything I can to support other Democratic candidates. I'll do what I can to raise money for the Democratic Party to help make sure that we have resources to run competitive campaigns up and down the ballot. If I am elected, my top focus will be constituent service, being in the district, doing town halls, which we have not had from Brad Knott. I will focus on helping people who have issues with benefits, social security, or a passport, or the eighth grade is coming to Washington and they need a photo op or some tour, I will help with that. I will also work with local leaders to make sure that we hear their concerns and offer ways to get resources to into the communities, particularly to support economic development. So, all that said, if you don't hear from me and I'm not doing those things and I'm not meeting your needs, then for gosh sakes, I hope you will vote me out and get rid of the bum the next time. But if I'm doing those things, I hope that you'll see that I'm accountable and effective and that you will send me back. But I will say hopefully not for that many terms, because I think let somebody else have a chance would be my philosophy. I think a lot of the folks up there probably ought to do that. So I'll raise money. I'll look to raise a profile, I'll support it anyway. Every Democrat in Canada in getting elected and pursuing whatever goals they have. I will also look to listen, to bring resources to respond to concerns and to be responsive in every way that I can. And hopefully that will position you to feel that I have done what you're looking for out of your representative and that you send me back for a couple times, but maybe no more than that. Thank you so much.

Forum Guest: 12:49

Thank you.

Frank Pierce: 12:53

So, what will I do for the Democratic Party is work on making sure that we're bringing values forward, like universal health care, making sure that we're bringing forward a living wage. We have a 65-page paper for living wage, and it's one that Republicans in the U.S. House have already seen and talked about that are similar districts to mine. And how we would do it is you just do those things and you have those communications with them. Those that make sure that we're moving forward and making sure that Democrats know that we are here for them. We're standing up for issues like Gaza. We're making sure that people understand that what is happening there is a genocide. We're standing up for the communities in Sedan who where women are getting raped daily, and those are things that we need to make sure that we are putting forward and bringing people forward. Affordable housing. How do you do that? You do that by policy writing. So we have eight counties. Seven of them do not have enough water for 10 years from now. Do you know how long it takes to build a water reservoir? 10 years. That's on the low end. It's about 10 years. So seven of my counties are going to be without water based on their growth. Granville County, Southern Granville, has actually stopped building. They had 200 houses set to go up. They've completely stopped after the second house was built. They did not have any water to go there at all. They have actually been under our boiled water advisory in southern Granville this whole for the last two months. How many times has anyone seen it on the news? You don't. So those are things that make sure that we're getting things done so that we bring demage cuts. And to stand up for you, guys, I'm always here. One of the things I do is I do anywhere from eight to ten bookbag drives a year in my district. I do about 30 to 40 food drives. And in Raleigh, I feed every firefighter station, which is 28 of them, on Thanksgiving and Christmas. Between those three things, I raise over $250,000 a year doing that. Raising money is not an issue if I thought that that's what we needed to win. Things that you need to win is making sure that we're door knocking and people are showing up. Those things matter.

Forum Guest: 14:22

What is a living wage?

Frank Pierce: 14:23

So living wage is based on where you live. Michigan did a thing where they said 19 for the rural areas. So how I would do it is you have 19 for the rural areas, but every county actually gets to do it. So your local elected officials get to do it. So that we would set it, we'll just say 19. We're just gonna pick a number, 19. And then every commissioner in Wake would get to vote on what they thought a living wage for Wake County was. And so essentially, North Carolina could have a hundred different living wages, and you base it on where the company is located. So Johnson County companies won't be the same as Wake.

Walter Kreutz: 14:56

I've got to give you an opportunity to respond to that one. What's a living wage? I'll give you 40 seconds.

Paul Barringer: 15:00

Living wage, I think, would be determined by geography. We have to look at different geographies in order to, but the conceptual concept that at its core, I think a living wage is what allows people to live in that community, and there has to be some variability in that. Um, like what's the number? How many is it for in Lee County and Wake County in New York City? And um, I mean, in New York City, people are making 200 grand a year, paycheck to paycheck. I've heard it from a lot of people in Johnston County, the young families making a hundred grand a year, they feel like they're living paycheck to paycheck and they can't afford anything. So I think there's variability by community, and just like Frank says, I agree with him on that.

Walter Kreutz: 15:36

So we do have questions that are kind of always going around in what you're gonna do. I kind of chose the rest of them, importance of what they are. This is one of the most important ones, I think, that we have that really differentiate ourselves. But the first question is do you support a woman's right to choose? Paul?

Paul Barringer: 15:52

Yes.

Speaker 4: 16:02

So, yes, also, but expanding on it, you have to write policy to make that happen. Like it's not something that's little. One of the things that both parties do that isn't is we don't write policy. There are so many times that we're always trying to pass big bills, whereas if we wrote small bills for policy to help women and you make it up into 10 smaller bills, you'll pass it. Policy matters in how you write it. So that's how you do it. So, yes, but make sure we're writing policy to protect them like we should have done in 2008.

Walter Kreutz: 16:32

All right. This is the question that I actually really do like because this will definitely take everyone's two minutes. What is your biggest goals in repairing some of the damage that Trump has done if the Dems become the majority in the House? So the examples are environmental protection, voting rights, and et cetera.

Paul Barringer: 16:48

So the three priorities that I have when I get elected, as I mentioned before, one is countering the executive overreach from the president by fulfilling Congress's Article I responsibility to be an independent and co-equal branch of government. And I think in practical terms, that means taking back Congress's role in issues like tariffs. Tariffs are taxes. Taxes and revenue is the province of Congress. Congress should control that. They have inappropriately delegated that responsibility to the president. There are a host of other concerns where Congress has inappropriately delegated authority or has ceded that authority. I would say just two examples: the Kennedy Center, the created by an act of Congress, pulled out of circulation by the president by Fiat. I think we all suspect that renovation may mean destruction because that's what often means what happens with Donald Trump. So the second is the negotiation of the DHS funding bill, where the Senate majority leader has ponded and says that we can't negotiate with the Senate Democrats. Has to be the president that does that or the White House. So Congress isn't fulfilling its obligation. I will work to make sure that it does. Secondly, in healthcare, I've worked in healthcare for more than 30 years. I did a lot of work over the last 10 years in helping Medicaid agencies approve their operations. About 10, 12 years ago, I did a bunch of work around the launch of the Affordable Care Act to help people get covered. So I know how important that is. And what I would definitely work to do if I can get elected is to reverse the changes that the administration has made to healthcare. One, with the big beautiful bill creating new burdensome bureaucracy and eligibility requirements that will result in an estimated 11 million people losing Medicaid coverage. Second, with the failure of the Congress to address the expanded subsidies under the Affordable Care Act, which means that many people will lose coverage or be priced out of coverage. And finally, I think we push for Congress to consider all long-term alternatives that can help promote a sustainable, affordable, universal health care. And then the final is constituent service, as I mentioned before. Those are my three priorities.

Frank Pierce: 18:42

I think we could talk for about four hours about that with all the things that he's damaged, you know, especially environmental and all those things. So the first thing is how they're getting things done is they're writing policy to do so. So how you have to protect it is write policy to do so and get people on your side. Our district is actually, it is the number one gerrymander district in the country, but it's getting states like Alabama, Alaska, Tennessee, places that have similar districts and similar makeups to understand how this is affecting them and make sure when you go and write that policy, you get people on your side. Even with a majority, it doesn't mean every Democrat's gonna vote with us. That we know. We've seen that with people that are elected in the Senate, people that are elected in the House. So getting people on your side and bringing them together. That's one of the things I've done in building my small business and working together and working with people and saying this is how we get things done by actually moving forward. My number one thing is constituent services. So you have to help people in the community. We can help with water bills, like when you when you have issues. Apex, a few weeks ago or last year, had massive water issues with their water billing. Those are things that you should be down here helping, having a person on your team doing, doing things like that. Making sure that as Democrats that you're writing policy to make life better. And if everyone doesn't know this, did you know you can write policy where they can't add anything to it? So what they do now is they write the bill and then they come up to Amanda and say, just add what you need to add to make it pass. You can actually write policy where they cannot add anything to it, but that requires you to go get Amanda's vote and get her on your side. And that's one of the things that I will do is making sure that we're writing policy where there's nothing stupid in it. Writing small things like term limits, making sure we have water conservation, things that people care about and we need to make sure that are happening. You know, I know there's an older generation in this room, but I do think that there's an age limit that we should have. I think that we those are things that we need to have to make the country better. Those things matter. So making sure that when you write policy, you actually don't add a whole bunch of stuff that's not going to let it pass. You can keep it to a minute and then make things better.

Walter Kreutz: 20:35

All right. Here's a good question that is very important to Democrats. Most of us are concerned about healthcare costs and availability, particularly access in rural areas. What experience do you have in healthcare and making it more available and new options? In DC, will you be able to work with Congress or on policy making for it?

Paul Barringer: 20:56

So I am a lawyer. I'm a health lawyer, and I also went to graduate school in public policy and focused on healthcare and have worked in my entire career in healthcare. I worked as a health lawyer right out of school. I've worked both in the US and overseas, so I've seen some of the international models that can be effective. I have worked as the general counsel of a nonprofit that's focused on health reform. And I've worked in the corporate world around healthcare issues for many years, and especially over the last 10 years on helping to improve Medicaid and human service agency operations. And as I mentioned before, I did a lot of work around the launch of the Affordable Care Act to help people get covered. I know how impactful that is. I know how important it is. I also know how confusing it is. So I saw how the work that we did, that our teams did to support state agencies was very meaningful for people and it really could be life saving. So in Congress, as I mentioned before, I will work to make sure that we reverse the changes from the big beautiful bill around the Medicaid eligibility requirements. I will work to ensure that there is funding and That it's uh enhanced subsidies are available for the population in who gets Affordable Care Act coverage. But I also think it's very important as a country that we look at long-term reforms that can bring down the underlying cost of care and provide options for people to get covered no matter where they are, no matter what their employment status, or no matter kind of what cliff in income they may face, and then all of a sudden they went from having full coverage to having no coverage. So we need to look broadly at those issues. Congress is basically the board of directors of the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which is functionally the agency that finances about two-thirds of healthcare spending in the country. Congress has a role to play. I can bring expertise that supports that.

Frank Pierce: 22:45

So I know I harp on policy, but the thing is, is anybody raise their hand where the at any point has the healthcare been good in your life? At any point.

Forum Guest: 22:54

Yeah. Okay.

Frank Pierce: 22:55

When was that? Anyone else? Time frame, give me time frames. Anytime in the last 25 years.

Forum Guest: 23:02

Yeah, nominal Medicare. Yeah, Medicare. As a 10 Medicare. I had a $48,000 bill recently. I didn't pay it now.

Frank Pierce: 23:13

So I asked that and say, like, there are people, as in people in this room, that you get taken care of. And if you look at the numbers, 90% of the country doesn't. And that is a true fact. It depends on where you live, access, all of that stuff. So to do those things and change it, guys, we have to start completely over. This isn't like the Affordable Care Act was great. It had a lot of issues. Okay, fixing the subsidies is great, but it doesn't fix the problem. We're still going to have that problem down the road. You have to write a new bill. You have to bring new policy forward to make things better. You can't, you can look at the past and see what was good and how to improve on it, but you can't keep going back to the old things because they don't work. It doesn't help everyone across the state, across the country, anywhere. You have to start writing policy to bring things forward and making sure that it's better for everyone. You know, our district outside of Wake is extremely rural. Very few hospitals, right? Those things are going to matter, and you have to make sure that when you're doing those things, that you're not just going off the same old playbook. You have to move forward and have a playbook that says this is how we're going to make things better in Caswell and Franklin and Granville and Wake and all these areas so that that makes it better for the whole country. Because our district is the entire country. We have blue areas, we have red areas. We are a purple state. So if we can make it happen here, we can make it happen for the entire country.

Walter Kreutz: 24:30

So some of you might have seen this weekend at the NATO summit, there was a question similar to this. We want to make sure that the people we're, I think we're sending, answer this one right. Would you support American troops defending Taiwan, NATO, and the Ukraine?

Paul Barringer: 24:43

Nobody wants to put American troops in harm's way. And war should require, and war activities should require congressional authorization. We don't see that from the president right now. So I do think there's a role for Congress to play in authorizing military action. In terms of those specific things, Ukraine, I believe that the strategy that they have pursued over the last four and a half years of arming Ukraine has helped them. They are not asking for troops, they're asking for weapons, consistent, reliable deliveries of weapons. We should continue to do that. For Taiwan, it's complicated. Obviously, the warmongering that we have with Greenland is making China feel emboldened around Taiwan. So although I would never want to see American troops deployed to Taiwan, and President Trump actually has provided weapons to Taiwan, unlike some other presidents in the past. And you can argue whether that's good or bad. But I don't want to see troops go to defend Taiwan. I think we need to be conducting ourselves carefully and strategically with our relationships with other allies to position us so we don't have the risk of having to send troops to Taiwan. I think that's more likely than less likely with the way the president is behaving around foreign policy right now. That's Taiwan, Ukraine. What was the other one?

Walter Kreutz: 25:52

NATO.

Paul Barringer: 25:53

NATO. Of course. NATO, we should remain fully committed to NATO. We had a joint defense agreement. These are countries that we share so much with culturally, historically. It's helped to preserve a world order that's focused on democracy and demo like broad democratic values for 80 plus years to see the things that are happening to NATO is very troubling, very concerning. I would be a strong advocate for continuing our participation in NATO. And hopefully the collective defense agreement will keep us from having to deploy troops. But strong commitment to NATO. Thank you.

Frank Pierce: 26:32

So as someone who grew up dirt poor and had a full-time job since he was 11 years old, sending troops somewhere is not my ideal thing to do because it's me that goes. It's kids like me growing up that goes. The kids that don't have money and have no other thing else to do. When it comes to Ukraine, there are a lot of things that we can do. We are not holding them accountable with all the things that we've put sanctions on. They're still doing those things. We're still allowing them to trade oil with people, hiding it. They're still doing the things that we've put sanctions on because we're not holding them accountable. So to help Ukraine, not only is it giving them more weapons, but actually holding Russia accountable and making sure they can't get the money to keep paying for this war. As it goes to Taiwan, it's the same thing. Like we have to make sure that people know that we are there. You know, as much as China's going after Taiwan, if we say we are behind them, China isn't going to do anything. They can say all they want. We are who we are for a reason. We have built the number one army, navy, marines in the world. We have that. And they're not going to challenge that. They're trying to buck us because of what's happening in Greenland. That is why they are doing that. And that's the only reason. And as it comes to NATO, we should 100% be behind everything that NATO does, all those things that we have, because it benefits us not just not sending kids to die, but also in our everyday lives with trade and with everything else. I mean, this all ties back to also us getting over NAFTA. Canada now is having deals with the UK and Australia, and we just lost so many things. We closed two bourbon places. They closed the entire plant down because Canada is no longer buying Kentucky bourbon. So those things matter. And the only thing that you can do to make that is make sure that we are there and we are doing our job in Congress to make sure that the president doesn't get to do what he wants to do.

Walter Kreutz: 28:13

Tariffs. Do you support them or not support them? And then do you think the president should be able to implement tariffs for the United States?

Paul Barringer: 28:22

No. But I'll go a little bit more on this one. But also for Iran on what I said before, tariffs are taxes. Taxes are something that we all pay. There's been a lot of research. Goldman Sachs, the Federal Reserve, many independent economic organizations have analyzed the impact of tariffs, and the incidence of tariffs falls upon us. We all pay it. My favorite dark chocolate bar from Food Lion went up by 15%, 30 cents on the wholesale price from $3 to $3.30 after the imposition of the European tariffs last summer. I could say it directly. I mean, it happened. So, no, and tariffs are taxes. I'll say that again. Tariffs are taxes. Taxes and revenue are the province of the Congress. The Congress should control that. They have inappropriately delegated that authority along with many other authorities to the president. We need a Congress that has a backbone, that has the ability to function independently, that has people who can think independently, you don't just be a rubber stamp and do directly what the president tells them to do all the time. So, no, I do not support tariffs. I think that the way in which the president has implemented his on again, off again regime of tariffs has been very disruptive to the economy. It's definitely affected businesses. We see that, and it's not good for any of us. So, no, the Congress should take back that, and it has that authority per the Constitution. They should exercise that authority.

Frank Pierce: 29:53

So Trump was not the first one to impose tariffs. Like tariffs have been controlled since Ronald Reagan. That's number one. I don't support tariffs when they hurt our American people. So there are tariffs that we had in place that were good. When we got milk from Canada, it helped the Wisconsin farmers with selling their milk and keeping it in the U.S. There are tariffs that benefit us. And those are the tariffs that we should be making sure are put in place and used. And then there are tariffs that destroy us and do not help us and just cause taxation on us. So it's making sure that we balance those tariffs. If we want control of that, we have to write policy taking it from them because they've had it for a long time. Obama had tariffs, Clinton had tariffs, Bush had tariffs, tariffs have been around for a long time. So if we're going to do that, you have to write policy to take it from them and give it to congressional. But if we get it back, we have to make sure that we're understanding what we need to do and what we don't need to do, because there are tariffs that do help us and help our local farmers, our soybean farmers. 90% of the soybeans in this country go overseas, guys. So yeah, it's hurting us with the Chinese tariffs, but we have farmers that sell no product to the U.S. We have to make sure that when we're putting things forward, that we have that in mind because there are a lot of farmers, especially in North Carolina, that sell not a single thing to anyone in the U.S. So bringing that forward matters. If you want to take it back from the president, yes, let's write a policy to do that. But we have to make sure that we do these things.

Walter Kreutz: 31:19

All right. This is a very appropriate question for you guys right now. How can we stop losing Democratic candidates because of gerrymandering?

Paul Barringer: 31:26

Gerrymandering is a problem. Gerrymandering's been around a long time. I have said that, and I'm pretty sure I'm right on this, that Democrats invented gerrymandering, but Republicans perfected it because they have computers and they are using sophisticated data to draw a line, for example, here in Wake County, that puts in this district only Republicans and puts all the Democrats into the adjacent districts. So I believe that as national policy, we should have national policy around independent redistricting commissions across every state, not just in the blue states, not just in the good government states, but in every state, because otherwise you have a race to the bottom because the red states have gerrymandering, the blue states have independent commissions. So there has to be national policy. I would definitely support that. In the meantime, gerrymandering is a reality. We're in a district that's very red. So I think what we need to do is we need to choose to win. And that's really why I put myself forward, defining a platform that I believe has the potential to appeal broadly to not just Democrats but independents and maybe three or four Republicans across the district. I believe we can win with this platform. I've also raised money that positions us to be successful with more than 2,000 people donating to my campaign. And as evidence of what I believe is a strong campaign, I've been endorsed by Senator Lisa Grafstein, Representative Sarah Crawford, former Lieutenant Governor Dennis Wicker, former Congressman David Price, the young Democrats in North Carolina, the Wake County Voter Education Coalition, and just earlier this week, the News and Observer, which said that I was the ideal candidate to take on a freshman Republican incumbent in a red district. So again, I hope that you all will consider supporting me and choose to win because I think I can carry water working with you through March and into November to win this district to turn a blue.

Frank Pierce: 33:19

So being from North Carolina, does anyone in this room know what the number one thing that Democrats need in the state to win? Nope. They used to be in our party. Black voters. Guys, even though we took 92% of the black women, we have lost over a hundred thousand black women in the last 10 years in our party that are no longer voted. They are no longer on register rolls. We can win these gerrymander districts with black voters. I had the highest black voter turnout in the state in 25 years in this district. It is a rural district with rural areas. We can win seats with that. You know, being endorsed by organizations matters. The Raleigh Wake Citizens Association, which is the longest tenure get out and vote group in the entire state, not just Wake County, has endorsement. Those things matter. Turning out voters who don't vote. We don't show up to black communities, guys, until September, October. And that is a fact. And they are over it and they're not showing up. And you can see that in our elections across our state. Black voters matter, but they want us there in January and February and March and April. And my entire life I've been there January, February, March, and April. I grew up in Southeast Rally. So this state is important to me in getting Democrats to win in gerrymander districts is turning out the black vote because how they gerrymandered it is they took black voters who weren't voting. And those things matter. They use the black voters that weren't voting to do it because then they could say it wasn't about color, it was about doing vote numbers. So that's how you we win those districts. And it's also a candidate who's not gonna back down from Trump and not be a bully. I am loud proud the entire time, and I will not back away from him at any point.

Walter Kreutz: 34:58

All right. Why do you individually think you can beat Brad Knott?

Paul Barringer: 35:02

We got to get rid of Brad. Brad's been there for a year. If Brad stays around any longer, he's gonna get entrenched for good. We got to get him out of there right now. Like I just said, I think I can carry water for you. And if we work together, we can get him out this time. I have defined a platform that I think has the potential to appeal to a broad swath of the electorate. Democrats, independents, and at least a few Republicans. I have a rural background, but also expertise and law and healthcare that I think could be useful and will present well. And I've also managed to raise a substantial amount of money, more than $600,000 already for the campaign that positions us to have a field organization and to do other things that will allow us to be competitive down the stretch. That's just the start, but we can get more. And that's from more than 2,000 people. But there's thousands of other people that we can raise money from when they see that this district is competitive. So with the right platform and some resources, I think we can be competitive. And when you look at what's happened in some of the special elections over the last three or four months, that's the case. In the governor's races in Virginia and New Jersey, moderate candidates with affordability-oriented platforms turned districts that had gone red by wide margins just a year earlier. In a special congressional election in Tennessee, the lady moved the needle by 14 points. She didn't win, but she came close. And it was a district that looked a lot like ours. And then in the wake of Minneapolis, which I think has been a wake-up call for a lot of Americans who were asleep before then, we've seen in the recent elections in Louisiana, and especially in the state Senate race in Texas, that Democrats have moved the needle by wide margins. Again, with resources and an affordability-oriented common sense platform, I think we can do it. We'll stick it to Brad. Let's send him home this fall.

Frank Pierce: 36:53

So the active voter turnout last time was amazing. It being a year that's an off-year, getting those same voters back out is a lot easier when they know who they are voting for. It's the same candidate. Those things matter. Making sure that, you know, last time, Brad Knott's CD 13 chair, so you know how every Congressional District has a chair. Their chair ran two canvasses a day for the last three months because of all the groundwork that we had done. The man was like, we thought you were just going to be a name on a ballot. We didn't expect you to turn these out. They had a turnout and 88.3% of active Republican voters to beat us. That's also never happened in the Republican district ever. Those numbers matter. Beating Brad in this election is being able to turn people up because they believe in you and they show up. And those things do matter. Last time we had 7,000 people knock doors for us. That's not a small campaign. And that was a campaign that it's about building the grassroots and building from the ground up. It's people that are here in the state that know their neighbors that can knock their neighbors' doors and get them to show up. We know Brad Knock doesn't care, but I know one thing: if it's my name or someone else's name on the ballot, he's more afraid of my name on the ballot than he is anywhere else. Because last time we had an onstage ABC 11 debate that he canceled. Now who told him to do that? Tim Moore. I've known Tim Moore for 30 years. And Tim Moore said, I will never let that man on the stage with you because you will eat him for lunch. Those things matter. Getting people to show up. And also every everyone here knows. Do young progressive Democrats vote for conservative people? They don't. The Muslim community inside North Carolina will not vote for any person that will not stand up and vote against what's happening in Gaza. They have made that statement clear. And there are a lot of Muslims in this state. So having their vote is gonna matter. And if they're just gonna leave things blank because you won't say a genocide is happening in Gaza, then that's a lot of voters you're losing.

Walter Kreutz: 38:45

All right. So if elected, how will you fight fascism? Voting rights being dismantled. The SAFAC that's coming out as an example: women who have taken their husbands' names don't can't show up with the document with their original birth name. Executive orders being signed, mass dice agents. That's the question I want to put forth to you guys.

Paul Barringer: 39:03

We need a Congress that will step up and exercise its Article I responsibility under the Constitution to be independent. It's not doing that today. Congress is supposed to be an independent, co-equal third branch of government. That's not happening today. Congress needs to exercise oversight and ensure accountability for the other branches of government. It's not doing that today. I think by doing that, we counter the fascist tendencies, oligarchic, autocratic tendencies that we see and all the developments that are happening. And there's so many ways in which Congress has a role to play in oversight. We talked about war and the war powers resolution as one before. Corruption is a huge one. The Trump family made $4 billion over 50 years or 60 years in real estate. It's made $8 billion over the last year in crypto. I think everyone's aware of the $500 million investment that the Sheikh of Abu Dhabi made in the World of Liberty Financial, and then just two months later received access to very sensitive computer chips that had not been granted before. So executive accountability is an important role for Congress. We have to step up. We have to hold them accountable for things that they're doing that are violating the law. We have to stop the malfeasance. In terms of voting rights, we talked, you mentioned the voting rights. We have to protect access to the ballot box, all the effort that they've made to fighting fraud when there's an infinitesimally small amount of actual fraud which has been detected since 1982. I think they've identified something along the lines of 140 instances of voter fraud since 1982 out of billions and billions of ballots that have been cast. So there it's a solution in search of a problem. I think we have to push back. If they can't win at the ballot box on the strength of their ideas, they need they need to get new ideas. And we need to protect access to voting because that will ensure that we have the best ideas and power.

Frank Pierce: 40:55

So if the save act is terrible, but if it passed, it actually hurts the Republicans three times more than it hurts us because more Republicans don't have their birth certificate. It's only one in four, and that's a known number. So that's that hurts them more. Shouldn't be passed, but it does hurt it more. But how you fight fascism is the same way we did in World War II. Same way. Guys, you have to fight it head on. You have to step up and you have to be loud, and you have to make sure that people know that you're there. Okay. How you get rid of ice, no offense. We've had snow, ice, and government ice lately. You have to make sure you stay salty and fuck ice. Plain and simple. Like it's not a thing where you get you have to go on television and say that. You can't be scared because you have Donald Trump in there. And so we're clear. Article one of that we're talking about, like getting back our powers, guys. Congress hasn't had those powers since I don't know when. They didn't use them with Obama, they didn't use them with Clinton. They don't they choose and pick what they want to do, when they want to do it, and how they want to do it. If you want to get back control, it's actually going there and writing policy and giving people who are going to do that and actually go have conversations outside. Because I'm going to tell you, one day, if you ever have time, go to DC, okay, on a Thursday or Friday night, and you will see every one of them smoking cigars and drinking liquor together. So no one can tell me they can't write policy to get things done because they go to the same bars and have the same stuff all together. So to fight fascism, you have to stand up, be loud, be proud, and say, I'm not here for this. I'm gonna be nice. There is no niceness for fascism. You gotta stand up, fight, and be like, I'm here. We're not going anywhere, and we're gonna fight you tooth and nail, and I'm not gonna back down just because you tell me to, or you send some of your crazy MAGA people after. That's how you beat fascism.

Walter Kreutz: 42:34

All right, this is the last question. I kind of blended a little bit together. Brad Knott is going to be raising a lot of money in this state. Essentially, what are you doing to match his numbers? What type of organization are you putting together to outperform him in getting your message out? And what are you doing to reach across the aisle?

Paul Barringer: 42:51

So Brad Knott had raised about $850,000 or $900,000 through the end of last year. We had raised about $610,000. And that's for more than 2,000 donors. And yeah, I put some money in too, and I'll say because I really believe in this. I really, really believe in this race, and we have to do something because, dude, I want my country back, and the things that are happening are not right. So we're gonna continue to raise money that positions us to have a team with a field organization. I have built out a team. We've got people behind me who are helping to kind of do the things that need to get done from a communication, social media strategy and on the ground standpoint, we're gonna continue to do that. I think Brad Knott will raise more money than we will because remember, the Republicans, especially through crypto, are essentially in a place where they can print all the money that they want. That's an exaggeration, but not really that much. So they'll definitely have more money than we have, but we'll have enough to be competitive. And when you look at what's happened in some of these other races, the Republicans have had more. But as long as we have enough, we can be competitive. And that's my my whole uh point all along. Again, coupled with uh Platform that has the potential to appeal broadly to the electorate and resources. I think we can be competitive. So we'll continue to do everything that we can to raise money. There's lots of people that I've gone to have said, come back after the primary. So I know I've got a lot of people to hit before and after the primary. We're going to keep doing that because a rising tide will help all boats. If we can do this, we can support the county organizations as well. Those resources are helpful at a lot of levels. So I'm very committed to doing that, to supporting folks around the district in any way that I can to make them successful and in turn to allow us to be successful and turn the seat blue and get Brad Knott out of office.

Frank Pierce: 44:40

So I don't have 300 grand to give myself for this seat. I will say that. So in this seat, how it's going to matter is last time we organized 37 precincts across our eighth to make sure that we're turning voters out. Okay. Brad Knott's going to raise ungodly money. That's great. That's not going to help him with voters and getting voters to turn out for him. He's already made people mad. But the biggest thing for the Democratic Party is having a candidate that's going to be liked by every single organization in our own platform. The Jewish caucus, the progressive caucus, the Muslim caucus. There are caucuses who do not vote for someone in this party. The Democrats are the worst about it. We don't show up and vote a D just because they have a D. Republicans will show up and vote for an R, no matter who it is for the most part. We are not like that. We have never been like that in this state. So it's making sure that we're having the Democrat on the ballot who everyone is going to go show up and vote for from every single one of our affiliated organizations. I am first vice chair of the Democratic Mid of North Carolina. We have organized over 12 districts right now, from zero to 12 in less than a year. We have outreach. We have those things in our community. Those things matter. If you want someone that's going to show up in beat Brad and give us numbers for everyone, that's the Democrat on the ballot. That's the one that's been there from the beginning. Anita Earls needs people to turn up. I've already worked out a plan with the African-American Caucus in North Carolina. We are going to be going to every single HBCU to make sure that we're turning them out. We start that next month. Those things you do to make sure that we're turning out these voters and let them know we care about them and not just showing up in October. Knocking doors will win this race. I will knock more doors than anyone has ever knocked in a single race. I promise you. Knocked over 20,000 last time. I will get 30,000 this time. But making sure that we're getting those on the ground because at the end of the day, voters vote.

Walter Kreutz: 46:31

So for one minute, if you can come on up, tell us how we can learn more about you.

Paul Barringer: 46:35

Well, I thank you all so much for the opportunity to be here tonight. I really enjoyed the chance to respond to the questions and to introduce myself to everyone here. I'll stay around and am happy to provide any additional information or answer any other questions that anyone has. But you can also go online and find information about us at paulbarringer.com. We're on Instagram at I think it's um at PaulBarringer NC, we're on TikTok, Facebook. Yeah, all those things. So yeah, anyway, you find that on the on the website, paulbaringer.com. And we would love to have your support. We especially great for your vote, but also for any support you can provide in volunteering and of course financial support is always extremely helpful. So please check us out at paulbaringer.com. Thank you so much again for the opportunity to be here, and we'll look forward to turning the district blue in the fall.

Frank Pierce: 47:24

So start with the website is Frank Pierce for Congress.com. How to get a know me, if you go to that page, it actually has a number that comes straight to me. I have that phone, nobody else does. I do that because if I ever can't answer your calls, even if I don't answer, I'll call you back. I don't think I should be in Congress. And so you can reach me and let me know how to get things done because that matters. People being able to reach you and tell you about things and do that. But anything you ever need to know, you can always call me, email me, Frank Pierce for Congress at Outlook.com. But go to the website, it'll tell you how I stand and where I'm from. I'm from here. I've stayed here. I've always worked to make sure to better the Democratic Party and push it forward, and we get candidates who get Democrats to show up in November.

Walter Kreutz: 48:10

Guys, I want to thank both candidates for coming out. I want to thank all of you for coming out.

Amanda Benbow Lunn: 48:21

And that brings this episode to a close. Again, we covered the U.S. House of Representatives for District 13, also known as Congressional District 13 race. There are three candidates, Paul Barringer, Frank Pierce, and Alexander Nicholi. If this race is on your ballot and you are registered as Democrat or unaffiliated, you will be eligible to vote for one of these candidates. As always, if you have any topics or thoughts you'd like to share, you may reach out via social media or by emailing ncdeepdive at gmail.com. Throughout next week, episodes covering the 2026 primary election will continue to drop. Each one will have candidate contact information along with their websites, general voting information, general election information in the show notes, including links to our NC Deep Dive 2026 primary election voters guide for Southern Wake County. You may find that information if you access the episodes through our website ncdeepdive.com. You can also tune in to each episode wherever you already listen to music or podcast, like Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or Audible. If you found value in today's episode, I'd love for you to subscribe, review, and share it with others in your life who might find the information useful. Until next time, my friends, Namaste. The love and light in me sees and honors the love and light in you.